Steven D'Aprano wrote:
Don't imagine for one second that this is unique. I've even seen cases where the marketing department of a record label uploaded videos to YouTube, and the legal department then made DMCA claims and had their own videos removed. (I can't find the link right now, sorry.)
If you find the link, please send it to me. Sounds really funny/stupid. (I have a guess which record label this might be, but I'll keep it to me. ;-)
Rugxulo wrote:
You're right, good point, BUT copyright was never meant to be extended indefinitely.
Not indefinitely, but for a long time. Even the minimum terms of the Berne Convention are "almost forever", especially WRT software.
And there are a lot of crazy laws. You can't please everybody, even if you try. It's a minefield. I'm not saying you shouldn't try, but pretending that a law (standard) matters over what most people think (Borland) is naive at best.
Can't follow you here. This isn't about Borland, but P5.
But anyway, the law matters because you can be sued about it. You cannot be (successfully) sued based on public opinion only -- thankfully, or would you like to return to medieval witch trials?
What happens when the compiler for the copyrighted work is no longer available? What happens when the OS it ran on is no longer available?
You port it to another compiler or OS. That's why having source code available is important, especially in the long run.
What happens when it's no longer available for sale?
If it's copyrighted and not freely licensed, you're screwed. If it was released under a free license, you can keep using it. All important free licenses are irrevocable retrospectively. So even if the copyright holder changes his mind or disappears completely, you keep what you have. (You may not get new versions from them, but you can make your own, as long as it's free software.)
What happens when the cpu it runs on is no longer mass produced?
If it's assembler code, you port it (again, requires the source code, and takes some work) or run it in an emulator (which is actually a common thing to do now for many of the 1980's home computers). If it's a high-level language, you just compile it on a new target (possibly with small adaptations).
(See, I can worry too!)
And as I hopefully showed you, free software addresses your concerns.
What happens if nobody remembers how to use it?
RTFS. :-)
What happens if everybody is too busy arguing legalities to appreciate the gift horse (and his mouth or whatever)?
You point them to a FAQ.
BTW, see http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html
BTW, many people have rescinded licenses for various things without any good reason. And they scream and yell how they are allowed to push people around. It's disgusting. "Oops, sorry, end users, we don't care about you." Big surprise. It's not the first time nor the last.
Again, this can't happen with most free software licenses.
Like I said, it's moot here since nobody here (except Scott) is using P4 or P5 for a compiler. BUT, if we were, I would definitely ask Steve P. (and whoever else) for some kind of reassurance. If that failed to get any response, I would not worry and proceed as normal.
[...]
It's kinda funny that this comes up today. I've had a certain book in my possession for months now because the person I returned it to (so they could return it to their mother, who loaned it to me) accidentally returned it back to me (!) and yet refused to retrieve it! Am I legally bound to return what I already returned, even at my own inconvenience? If so, how fast should I send it? I already told them twice about it, and they gave me the runaround. I finally just said, "Forget it, I'll mail it directly." Had to do it myself, they weren't responsible enough to do it! (Note that this book was only $15 new, which is very small claims at best. How much is a compiler [or more specifically, P4] worth to you??)
I also had some really old baseball cards I assumed for YEARS belonged to a distant family member, but that person never stayed in contact with me. (I am much younger.) I never could even confirm whose they were, much less what to do with them. I finally shipped them off to the "nearest" other relative I could find. Legally, I have no idea what I would be required to do, but I did my best to be fair (even if it took like twenty years, and note that I'm only 31, heh).
So yes, I do indeed care, but often times it's worrying over nothing.
I think that's skewed comparisons.
- In your examples, the maximum damage can't be much higher than the face value of the items, i.e. minimal.
- If it's about software, the simplest case would be programs you just use a few times and are not invested in any way, e.g. games. Though already then, legal damages and lawyer fees can be much higher than the actual price.
- If it's a compiler you use to build your own programs, and you don't have a license, the copyright holder can force you to stop using it (besides demanding damages). In this case you have to port your code to another compiler, at least, immediately (apart from damages).
- If you actually base your own project on the other one (as was implied here), the copyright holder can basically bring down your project if you don't have a proper license. And for a big project (such as GPC), this means many man-years and/or equivalent amounts of money, i.e. enormous damages (regardless of the "value" of the code used), apart from damaged reputation etc.
So the danger is much higher than you seem to imagine.
Maybe your argument is: We can't win anyway, so let's do anything. While big companies often try to manipulate laws to their advantage, it's not true that they always get everything. See e.g. http://gpl-violations.org/ for some cases where the GPL was successfully enforced in court, also against some bigger companies.
Frank